Blue White Illustrated Online

Larry Johnson Sr.’s track record with defensive lineman was already noteworthy before Jared Odrick came along. After another first round pick, Johnson’s resume continues to grow as one of the premier assistants in the country. BWI sat down with Johnson in July to talk about his latest protege, and get an idea of what to expect this fall from his defensive line.

When you recruited Jared Odrick, what did you see in him?

I saw Jared at a Nike Camp. It was my first time seeing him and he was a young kid at the time. He was a baby, was actually going to become a junior and he came to the Nike Camp, and there were a lot of bigtime defensive tackles at this camp. This was the first year we were allowed to watch them participate. He stood out then as a young kid. He was a baby kid, but you knew he had potential and size. Then I had a chance to see him play basketball as a junior because he was a basketball player. You saw a guy, very athletic that could move, change direction, and you go ‘Wow, he’s going to be special.’ So we really started recruiting him pretty good. He would come up to every game his junior year. Every game he was here, and we went on to develop really a great relationship as player-coach, just talking about his future, what he wanted to do, his goals and aspirations, and how Penn State fit into that. That really started the process. But, we recruited him as a defensive end when we brought him in, because at that time, he was about 265-270 and then finally, he wanted to play on the defensive side of the ball and teams kept saying ‘You can play offensive tackle’ and his feet were just too good to be an offensive tackle. He could have been a great one, but he also had the potential to be a great defensive tackle. So his sophomore year, we moved him, just based on need first of all, and we looked at his future, where we saw him playing at the next level.

Was he carrying that weight at the time as a defensive end? Had he put on enough to make that transition?

He went from 270 to 290 pretty easy and looked like he weighed 250. Jared carried his weight so well. He was a real heavy bottom guy, but he carried his weight so well that when you looked at him, he was 270 and he was actually 290. So we felt the transition inside would be pretty easy for him because he had the bulk and the size and the quickness. So, it wasn’t a matter of how much weight did he weigh, it was the fact that we knew he was going to get bigger.

With defensive tackle and defensive end, what ultimately made him more suitable for tackle than at end?

Well at the end position, you’re always going to isolate a guy. He had the quicks, but he didn’t have the 4.6 quick that you want to see from a defensive end from the outside, and we felt at the time we had some guys coming in who were better suited to play defensive end. And we felt with his speed on the inside – anytime you take a guy who is an outstanding athlete from the outside and move him closer to the ball, you’ll be getting a pretty good athlete, and by moving him to the inside, we create a great match-up. We had a guy who is a high energy guy, great pass rusher, and that three-technique guy gives them a lot of one-on-one pass rush moves on the guards. We felt that he was going to be very suited to create really a big mismatch on the inside, and he did.

You also have to be able to stop the run on the inside. Was he perfectly suited for that as well?

No question about it. He was strong, physical, understood how to fit in the running game with our gap-control defense, and could get off blocks fast. A lot of things about playing on the inside and stopping the run is being able to get off blocks, and Jared could get off blocks real quick and that really makes him very productive inside.

Is that just his upper body strength?

Actually it’s his lower body strength. A lot of the defensive tackle guys, you have to have the right hip explosion. You gotta be able to explode your hips to get into guys and if you look at it – I tell the guys all the time that when I recruit guys, I look at their butts first to recruit them… how big their butts are, because that’s where the power is, the explosion is. And he has great explosion in his hips, so you knew he had the ability to hang in there, double-teams and those kinds of things to play the run real well.

Did you immediately see when he was first here that he would be able to go on and do some of the outstanding things he did his junior and senior seasons?

I’ll tell you this, I’m not a visionary but he felt and I felt that he had enough talent first of all to play at the next level because he was very talented for his size. There was no question about that. The development to get there is the key. Some guys lose track trying to get to that final process. The thing about Jared that has been so interesting, and I told pro scouts this, is that most of the time a guy starts at this level and he gets to his junior year and he’d taper off. If you look at some of the great defensive players, they have great junior years, but they have average senior years, very average senior years. With Jared, he was like (demonstrates incline) this. It was a constant peak of evaluation of him going forward and going higher. So when he got to his junior year and had a great junior year, everybody thought, Well, he’s done. But really, he does (demonstrates incline) this again, and I think that’s the thing about Jared that is really mind boggling is how well that he was able to continue to climb the ladder of success to get where he is today. It really is.

When guys plataeu, is it an attitude thing?

It’s an attitude of, I’ve arrived already, I’m there, I’m good enough, I don’t need to learn anymore. You don’t work as hard. But, he worked as hard his junior year going into the summer of his senior year, we were talking about this today with the strength coach is how hard he ran. He got in great shape, did all of the extra things, and that’s what you want to see is a guy who has got ability like Jared to be a dominant football player. You want to see him do all of the extra things and Jared did all of the extra things. So, it was just a matter of it all coming together for him, and it did in a nice way.

Was there any doubt he would come back for his senior year?

There were moments of doubts, but in talking to him, talking to the family and really sifting through it, there was no question he was coming back. It got to the point where it was exploratory and it was flattering for him, but you knew that he had some work that he had to get done, and it really was the best thing for him because the numbers were like second or third round. I said, Jared, you’re better than that. You have a lot left. Come back, play your senior year and let’s have a great year. I think he looked at that and said, You know what, you’re right. I’m going to come back and do this thing the right way. So, it was a blessing.

Did he have conversations with you throughout that process?

Yeah, he talked to myself, talked to coach Paterno and got his advice, we got advice from the NFL panel to find out exactly where he was going to be if he was drafted. We try to get all of the good information to give our players to make a good decision. Then we talked to his parents and his teammates and I think his teammates, the ability to come back and play his senior year… those are some things that I think you miss out on that every kid should get is, you don’t get a chance to run out of the tunnel for the last time, you don’t get to do the senior thing. That’s special stuff here as a senior player. You gotta weigh all of that stuff in. Even though it may be a small picture in the thing, but really, it’s a huge thing for your career, I think.

It seemed like he took the Penn State experience very seriously.

Oh yeah. No, he did. He loved it. He really did. He loved everything. He loved the student body. He loved putting that uniform on and going to play and the bigger the stage, the better he felt comfortable in. And that’s what you want, really.

You obviously will get more attention from opposing offensive lines coming off a junior season like that. Was his ability to respond to the double and triple teams surprising to you?

Like any good player, they want to make every play. Jared wanted to make every play, and I told him, They’re going to scheme you. They’re not going to let you run wild. And I don’t blame them. So get ready. So, what we’ve gotta do is get a plan to continue to give you freedom to do some things. So we did some things with Jared, moved him around, so we had the chance to be free so he didn’t get double-teamed, triple-teamed all of the time. But, every team had a plan for him, which is really neat. I said, It’s out of respect for you, Jared, that they had to do that. Then sometimes, we would just line up and say, Let’s go play. Today is about playing.

Do you have to guard against frustration for a kid like that?

No question. You have to, because everybody wants to see the numbers and you have to say, The numbers are not important. It’s still a team concept and the guys around you… your success inside may not be in numbers, but that guy gets his sack because of what you did on the inside. Or, this linebacker made this tackle because of what you did at the line of scrimmage. In videotape, you get to reinforce those types of things in the meetings and say, You didn’t make the tackle, but boy, when you don’t do this, we don’t get that tackle. So when they start seeing that way, they really buy into the team concept and team effort and great defense and it’s easy to sell from that point on.

I assume you were pleased then to see the post-season honors he got with the All-American, Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year? That had to be satisfying.

It was really great. Every year we recruit, we do a thing with our players that I give them a four year action plan of what we expect to happen. Then we sit down in our recruiting evaluation and say, Okay, tell me your goals that you want to meet. Here are my goals I have set for you. He met every goal but one and he said to me when it was all said and done, he said, Coach, we got ‘em all but one. I said, You’re right, we got ‘em all but one, and that was to be the Vince Lombardi winner. But we had everything else that we had set for him to happen. It happened. And I think that’s the thing about kids like Jared. He was very goal-orientated with things he wanted to accomplish and he’s just at the top of the iceberg. He’s not even close to where I think he’s going to be when it’s all said and done.

So what can he accomplish at the next level?

Well, I’ll tell you, it’s a great future for him. The thing that Jared… he’s going to have some moments, but he’s going to have some great moments, and the thing that Jared brings to the table is that he’s so versatile, and here’s a guy that can line up and literally play four positions on the defensive line. He can play a five-technique defensive end, a three-technique, a nose guard, kick him out wide or he can play a nine-technique. So he becomes a very high commodity for defensive guys that you don’t have to substitute a lineman to go in the game. Jared can move out and do the exact same thing, so I think that’s a bonus that he’s very versatile. But, what he’ll learn to do is hold that high energy, playing fast, playing hard, that will stay with him. Everything else is just learning new techniques, new things, playing in a different defensive scheme. The Miami Dolphins is a 3-4 team. We’re a 4-man front, so he’ll have to learn some different techniques that he wouldn’t have gotten here, but when the whistle blows and the ball is snapped, it’s still football. Once he gets the playbook and gets to that area, I expect him to be very successful in the NFL.

His motor seems to be a thing of legend. Is it stamina, physical, attitude, mental? What makes him able to play to exhaustion?

It’s all of those things. We have a thing we call a brand here, a defensive line brand, and that’s the ability to play full-speed. It’s a skill that you can acquire to do. It doesn’t happen easy. Some guys walk in understanding it and get it done. Tamba Hali walked in here, he understood what playing full speed all out was, and he did it. Then Jared has had some great role models in front of him, guys who set the bar for him to see exactly how it should be done, and you would hope a guy who has been here for four years would see that this is what you gotta do to get to the next level. He bought into it. He understood how to play full-speed, and then that becomes a part of you, what you do. But, the biggest sell is getting guys to understand playing full-speed is a skill. I told Jared, You mastered that skill because you understood how to do it in practice and in games every single play, and that’s what makes a guy great.

Is that unique to get a guy to be able to do that in practice?

No question. It’s special. It’s more than unique. It’s really special, because you have to buy into it. You literally have to buy into the whole gamut. You can’t go two plays full-speed and take four plays off. You just can’t do it. Our style of play is predicated on our players playing at a high level all the time, so when a guy gets like Jared, it makes it easier for me as a coach, it really does.

You seem to have particularly close relationships with your players. What was it like with Jared for you?

Same thing. We were very close. We talk at least once a week. Even now I’ll call him and say, How’s it going? What’s going on with you? Because I think it’s important, when you develop a relationship early on in the recruiting process, and it’s a guy you’re going to coach, to me, it’s paramount that you get a chance to get to know him, inside and outside. Then you know how to motivate. Some things I could do with Jared I couldn’t do with another player because that’s not what motivates him. You’ve gotta know all of those things, and I think from there, having conversations sitting down in our office and just talking, we don’t agree on everything, and that was good, but when we had a chance to sit down and talk about those things and talk it out, you really get a chance to get to know him, know the family, and that’s how relationships are built, and to me they’re important.

What would press his buttons or get him going specifically?

He was always challenged by if there was a guy that someone said was better than him. That got his goat. That would get him going. Hey Jared, you’re going to play the best offensive guard in the country. That would get him going. They’d say, Hey, you’re the fifth-best tackle in the country. Those things, he is really one of those guys that strive on being the best. So, you just gotta dangle that carrot for him sometimes just to continue to get him to go forward, and those are things that really got him going. Things that he knew he could control that he could make a difference. That got him fired up.

The kid from Nebraska toward the end of the season…

Oh no question. But you know what? Jared appreciated greatness. He does. He’s not jealous of greatness, he appreciates greatness. Like I told him, Suh, in one game, became an All-American. In one game. Literally. No one knew who he was. In one game. That’s what it is. That’s how fickle this thing is. That doesn’t define you as a player, but now everybody writes about him because he’s phenomenal. And here you are, in the draft, you were probably the most versatile guy out of both guys. And you look at the numbers, their 40-yard dash times, their jumps, everything, they were very comparable. There was no difference between any three of them, but the machine got all the oil. So I said, Don’t be disappointed my man. You’re a great player. He’s a great player, and you’re a great player, and that’s the way it should be?

Do you think that will continue to motivate him?

Oh I know he will. He’ll look at stats every Sunday morning and see what Suh has done compared to what he’s done. Trust me, he’ll check those numbers out. He wnats to be the best, he really does. He wants to be the best.

Can we talk about replacing him? Devon seems to be the guy…

Let me say this. This is my 15th season and I say this every year. We lose some great players, some great young men, every year. I never say replace a guy, because I don’t think you can, but you hope that the next guy is ready to go, to make his mark, to do his thing, in a different way. And we’ve had that happen. We thought we couldn’t replace Courtney Brown, Tamba Hali, Brad Scioli, and we found ways to do that. So, to me, it’s the next guy. Is the next guy ready to put his mark on that defensive line play? Is that guy Devon Still, is it Jordan Hill, Ollie Ogbu, whoever that is, they’ve gotta be ready. Devon Still stands in the limelight. We had a conversation about this before he went home for the summer is that he stands in the limelight. They’re going to say, You’re the next Jared Odrick. I’m going to say, You’re the next Devon Still, because your mark is going to be what’s important. I think you gotta use Jared’s yardstick, but it’s going to be your deal. It’s going to be your mark that’s going to happen here. And to me, that’s what makes coaching great, that you get to see another guy set his mark.

Is that a credit to recruiting, coaching, both, that you can bring kids in and it seems to be seamless?

It’s all of the above. It really is. You’ve gotta get the right kids. I’m really believing in recruiting the right people. I really do. And the people I’m recruiting, we’re recruiting, are people who understand the academic part of it, being successful. There’s a great correlation between academic success and football success. I truly believe in that. You can’t do one or the other. You’ve gotta do both. If a guy is good in the classroom, he’s got a good chance of being good on the field because he understands how to work. So that’s the first thing we’re looking for, and those are the things that coach Paterno preaches about. Then, it’s the development of the relationships. To me, I think that’s paramount is to develop the relationship. Laying it out for the kids, giving them a plan of what is expected and being honest with them and being really truthful about where you are ability-wise. Everybody in this room won’t go to the next level, but you can be great college football players. You’ve gotta have some of those guys. Every guy in your room is not going to be a draft pick and I understand that. So you’ve gotta have those guys that can be great college players, because it makes the draft pick guys even better.

You usually go at least two deep across, so you have eight kids. Is that part of the motivating factor that the kids constantly have that pressure from behind to keep working, and your insistence on using a system like that?

No question about it. I think it’s important in a lot of ways. It’s important for our depth on the field – if we don’t play Jordan Hill as a freshman this past season, we don’t have depth going into the fall, and I knew that. Coach and I talked about that. I said, Coach, we’ve gotta pull the trigger here because you want a guy who has played in a game, and we did. So now, we’ve developed the depth, and we’ve always thought that way, that having 8-10 guys that can play in the game, it can really continue to develop the depth for the future, and that’s why we’ve been very consistent that, Oh they’re not going to be back this year, and there’s another guy that shows up. I laugh, because they’re not at practice every day and they aren’t going to see it from the outside. I think that’s part of the development is to be able to play eight, nine, ten guys in the course of a game. Recruiting-wise, it helps us because now the players know, if you’re good enough, my philosophy and coach’s philosophy is, if you’re good enough when you’re a freshman or sophomore, we’re going to play you if you’re good enough. So a guy coming in as a freshman can understand, Man, coach he rotates these guys. I might get a chance to get on this depth chart. That’s why we’ve had a lot of success with our recruiting is because kids see how we play a lot of guys.

Does it stop at eight? How do you get the guys in the back prepared?

You’d like to get 10 guys ready to go. That’s what you’d like to do. You’d like to get five inside, five outside. Nine times out of ten, we get to nine, and that ninth guy is really a dual guy who can play inside or bump outside if needed. So we practice with eight and we do hold onto a ninth guy, sometimes ten, to rotate, to spell guys just to get the depth, get the movement, get the work. But we definitely work two groups real hard in practice, and that ninth guy is a floater that I think can play inside or outside just in case we have an emergency on the road, we can go with the ninth guy right in the game. But we’ve got 10 ready to go, but we play eight to nine.

Going back to Devon, what is it about this kid? Joe seemed heartbroken when he went down with the first injury.

Potential-wise, he’s got the same ‘it’ stuff that you want to see and that great players have. He’s got it. He’s very strong. A very physical kind of guy at the point of attack. It’s just having more confidence, because you’re coming off two major surgeries, and a lot of times, it’s just a confidence thing. He went through that a little bit, just trying to build confidence, that he can let himself go and go play. Now, he’s there. Now he’s got a chance, he has two more years left, if he wants, to have some really great future ahead of him. But he’s going to be a great fit for us. We really think he’s going to be a special player also.

With confidence, do you like to have your players have a little swagger about them? With Aaron Maybin, just the way he carried himself and even Jared and others that have gone on to future success, is that something you really look for?

Swagger in control I call it. You gotta have swagger, but in control of the swagger. Sometimes swagger can come off as being cocky. I don’t like that part of it, but I like the swagger and confidence that you know you’re the best. And in the bigger the game you’ll know the players that are ready to play because you can see it in their eyes. They’re ready to go. That’s what I like about what we do. That’s the kind of swagger I like, that the bigger the competition, we’re ready. I’ve seen it in my guys. I’ve seen their eyes, walking out of my meeting room before a game and saying, Boy, we’re ready. You know they’re ready because you can see it and feel it because they know what’s at stake. Like the LSU game, I knew that we were ready when we walked on the field because they knew that this was a big stage. We got a chance to prove ourselves again. And that’s what you want. That’s the kind of swagger and confidence that you want.

What does Ollie bring to the table? He is likely to get overlooked even though he’s a three year starter now.

He’s one of those guys that as a nose guard, believe it or not, he’ll get double-teamed more than the three-technique in the run game. He’ll get scooped, double-teamed, cut off. That guy has got to be a war daddy for us. He might be the unsung hero of all of these groups that we’ve had play for us. You take Anthony Adams, the year he played here for us as a nose guard, and you had Jim Kennedy and you had Michael Haynes, he really was probably the backbone of that whole group because he took pressure off Jimmy, and then he took pressure off Michael Haynes, who had 15-16 sacks that season. But it’s a thankless job to play that position inside because you don’t get a lot of credit. That’s why no one is talking about him because the numbers are not there, but you watch the video tape, and he’s doing some things that you would love to have a lot of guys do that he does inside.

A lot of times with leaders, you can immediately just tell who has it. On the defensive side of the ball and specifically on the line, do you have those guys? Is Ollie one of them? Who are the players who you hope develop into that this summer?

Ollie certainly has to be one of those guys because he’s a senior player. He has to be one of the guys to be a leader for us. Jack Crawford, who now has played enough football, we’re counting on him being a leader. Eric Latimore, who is now going into his senior year, he’s been around and is really starting to come around to the front. We’re counting on him being a senior and great leader for us. So, I think we’ve got enough guys around the young players to have a great measurement of what it takes to be really good. So I’m counting on all of those guys to really do a great job with leadership.

With Jack, he’s been an object of attention since he stepped foot on campus as a kid with raw, untapped potential. Is this the year you expect those developments to really take hold?

I do. I really think Jack is going to have a great year because he has put the work in now. He understands. I’m telling you, you wouldn’t want Jack to be perfect his freshman year. You really wouldn’t. Sophomore year, he got a little better. Now, he has got all of the tools and he understands the game more. I think he’s going to have an outstanding year. Knock on wood that he stays healthy, but I think it will be really an outstanding year for us.

Do you like being in this position where people don’t really know?

I love it. That’s what coaching is all about. Trust me. People ask me, Why are you so excited? I say, I’m so excited this year and you know why? Because nobody knows who guys are. They don’t know their names, and that’s what makes it neat. That’s what makes coaching, really, for me, that’s what makes it fun, when you have a group like this that I really like a lot. Great people, good group, works hard, listens. I’m tickled to death with where we are right now.

In Jordan and Sean Stanley, you have a couple of guys who got a taste last year but really didn’t get to see full-time action. Will they get more of an opportunity to contribute this year?

Yeah they will. Sean Stanley, Kevion Latham, those guys are going to be guys that people are going to talk about. And, we got Pete Massaro coming back, and people don’t know what he’s all about yet, but he’s going to be special too. So really, it’s going to be neat. If we stay healthy, they’ll work hard for us and we’ll get challenged early on in the season, which is going to be good for us, but if we hang in together and continue to fight, we’ll be good. We’ll be all right.

Did Pete surprise you last spring before the injury?

If Pete had not gotten hurt, he probably would have been one of our starting defensive ends going into the fall. I thought he had a great spring. He really did. He did some things that were really, really neat. He worked hard, he’d fly off the edge. He was tough, physical, and he’s gotten bigger now. The injury slowed him down a little bit, but he’s gotten bigger and physical. He’s 100 percent and he’s ready to go. I tell him every day, I say, I’m counting on you. And he knows it, so I’m looking forward to him getting on the field, I really am.

What’s his personality in the ‘no one knows who you are’ category?

Great. I’m telling you he’s a smart player, a great academic student, and I think he finished the semester with like a 3.9. Like four As and an A- or something. But he’s been a great student since he’s been here. He understands the game. Real bright. Understands the game. The thing I like about Pete is he’s no nonsense. He’s a no nonsense kind of guy, and he can be one of those guys that can be a great leader for us also. So, I think people are going to be absolutely surprised when they see him on the field.

Brandon Ware is a constant topic of conversation. What is his status right now?

Well Brandon, he’s got some work ahead of him. He’s gotta continue to work hard in summer school and those kinds of things, and if he does, he’ll be okay. I thought he had probably the best spring since he’s been here. I thought he did a really great job, got his weight down, got control of his weight a little better. He’s down to the 330s where I think he’s really great and 325 would be an ideal weight for him but he’s a big-boned man. You gotta be careful how much you ask a big man to lose. But, he’s in good shape and good health and that’s the most important thing. There’s a process. He’s a young kid, just understanding everything that goes on.

What did you see in Brad Bars and what does he bring to the table?

I’ll tell you, you watch the video tape and you thought you saw Aaron Maybin running all over the field because he could run. I mean, he could really run to the ball and play with high energy. He talks with high energy. He’s a real bubbly kind of guy. You can’t help but love him once you get around him, personality-wise. He makes you feel good about yourself because he’s so happy all of the time. Another great student, he really understands what it takes to be successful. A state championship in basketball, was a decathalon kid in high school. So, he’s got a lot of potential for us. I won’t be surprised that he’ll come in here and have a great career for us.

When you’re recruiting kids, is there one thing that stands out above other attributes? Whether it’s raw athleticism or personality and how they’ll fit into the system, what exactly do you look for?

It’s a lot of those things. I think the first thing you look for is to meet the people. The people, to me, that’s what makes a player. It’s the people. Guys that you can sit down and talk to and they look you straight in the eye and they look at you the whole time you’re talking. They consume every word you’re saying. That’s the first thing I look for. I look for those kind of guys who are like a sponge willing to learn. Then you don’t look at where they are. I try not to look at where they are right now. I try to look at where they’re going to be in the future. That’s my job is to project where I see them down the road and as a player for us in the program. That’s the thing that I get sold on. The videotape stuff is great but really, it’s the personality, meeting the family, meeting the kid, getting to know him. It really sells me, because everything else, really, is irrelevant to me. Learning technique, that’s why we’re coaching at a college level. But, does he have all of the ‘it’ factor to be really good? Does he work hard, does he play hard, does he understand, does he want to be good, does he want to be a great player? Those are the things that factor into recruiting kids.

When you get kids on campus, generally, what is the level that they’re at? Are you starting from scratch?

Some are very prepared. It depends on the high school they come from. Some are very prepared. Some get used to the pace of college football – the weight room, the running, the academic part. That’s a huge adjustment for all of our kids coming in. On the football field, for us as defensive linemen, really the biggest thing now is the physical contact, because there are guys as big as day on the other side of the field for the first time, and they’ve gotta get used to that now instead of pushing people around, they’re getting their heads knocked in. So really, you’ve gotta get them over that hump and then get them over to the regimine of really playing. They thought they played fast in high school, but then they realize how fast they gotta play, and that’s really the biggest challenge for me is to get them to get to full speed pretty quickly. When they get there and the conditioning kicks in, then they’re ready to play. So the first year is really about how to play full-speed, be fundamentally sound, do the little things well and do them all of the time. If they get that, they have a chance to be successful.

Are you counting the days until September 4?

I am. I wish we could start tomorrow. It’s one of those deals where we have some challenges. We have a challenging schedule, which is really neat. We get the chance to open up against Youngstown and then we go down to Alabama. Nobody is talking about it, but you gotta be excited about that. You really gotta be excited about playing them.

Did you know before the spring what you had?

Well we had an idea of what we had but there were some guys that you wanted to see now, first-timers you wanted to see how well they’ve done. You wanted to get a chance to work with Brandon a little more, you wanted to see Jordan Hill continue to develop as a player and put him into some tough situations, so that’s what spring ball is all about. It’s really about teaching and finding out a little bit more about players that you didn’t know going in, and I think that’s what I found out. Who I can really lean on and count on to really get it done. I saw those kinds of things happen in the spring. Then it’s a chance for the young guys to really get the chance to mesh as a unit again for the first time because we have guys graduate. Jared dominated the group because he was a leader of the group. Now we kind of see who are the leaders and who are the mergers. But, I’ll tell you, knock on wood, they really have worked hard thus far, and that’s a good sign. That really is a good sign.